Mel Bashore

Mel:    Whose idea was it to have a [Pacific Coast Football League] franchise in Salt Lake?

 

Frank:    I can't recall. I can't recall who contacted me at all.

 

Mel:  So somebody contacted you?  It wasn't your idea at all.

 

Frank:  Oh, no. As a matter fo fact, I didn't even want to become involved with it. I was too busy in business.  But they wanted someone who had some experience in football, college, professional, etc.  It was on that basis that someone, I'm not sure who, contacted me and asked me if I wouldn't do it. They convinced me that I might be a help to the community. That's the only thing that I can recall and I'm not sure that's accurate.

 

Mel:    Did you know that the AAFC [All America Football Conference] was going to begin operation as a new and competing league with the PCFL on the coast in 1946?

 

Frank:    I didn't know a thing about it. I'd never heard of it before.

 

Mel:    Had you heard of the Pacific Coast League?

 

Frank:    No. I have a faint recollection that there was some kind of football game played out there, but I'd had nothing to do with it.  When I left professional football at the end of the 1937 season, I became very involved in business. As a matter of fact, we had to work some pretty long hours to make enough to support yourself and family. We didn't have a lot of money so we didn't have a lot of chance [to keep up with what was going on in pro football] . . . . I can't recall the origin of the Seagulls. Ernie Mariani was involved in it. I don't know if he's the one who contacted me or someone else. I just can't recall. I do recall that there was a man, a commissioner of the Pacific Coast League that I met later on [Rufus Klawans]. . . . . [can't recall attending the Feb. 1946 PCFL annual meeting with Sleater and Tedesco to try to obtain franchise rights for Salt Lake]  I recall that we had a pretty good crowd, for some reason, at that first game at the [Utah State] Fairgrounds. Then we went over to Derks Field [in 1947] and didn't have anybody at those games . . . . [can't recall much at all about the "bleacher incident"].  I have a very faint recollection of doing something at the city commissioner meetings. . . . I can't remember that "board" [of directors of the Seagulls] that you speak of. I don't deny it. . . . I tell you, it's a blank. . . . That period of time, we formed the Diamond Products Company in 1944. That was a very small company with very little activity. We made bits for mining industry, but it was a very small amount of business. We needed additional work to maintain Christensen Machine Company. In 1946, we put a diamond bit in the Rangely Colorado plain. In a very short time, it exploded. It was learned that you could drill certain formations in the Rangely field with diamonds very easily. It was very difficult, if not impossible, to drill in the Rangely field with conventional drill bits. As a result, our business got bigger and bigger and bigger, rather quickly. I was so involved with that, that I suppose that I was [involved with the Seagulls] on the side without too much concern . . . . My association was very brief. Fred [Tesdesco] took it over and it [the Seagulls] became his problem and I was involved with my own problems. [His memories were vague about most of the stockholders. He was surprised that Tee Branca was a stockholder. He said he probably won the money playing golf off him to buy the stock. He said the stockholders probably comprised the bulk of the spectator crowd.] I can recall going to the first game at Derks Field and how disappointing it was. There must not have been more than fifty people there. It was terrible. . . . I remember walking up and down the [empty] stands wondering how can we have so few people.

 

Mel:    What do you think was the reason?

 

Frank:    I have no idea . . . . [agrees with the opinion of some players that playing on Sunday may have been a reason for poor attendance] . . . . In 1933, we had a contract with the Portsmouth [Ohio] Spartans. Jack Johnson and I both had a contract. We went to a game in Chicago called the "Century of Progress" game in the fall of 1933. We were given a 14-day excursion ticket on the railroad to Chicago and return. We were given seven dollars a day to live on, expenses, while we were there. They deducted four dollars for board and room where we stayed in a dormitory at Northwestern University. So we had three dollars left over. If we went to Portsmouth, Ohio, to work for the Spartans and we didn't make the team, how would we get home? We'd have to thumb a ride or something. Our excursion tickets would be gone and we had no money. We elected . . ., to heck with it. We would pass it up because we weren't that sure that we'd make it in pro football. We took the train back to Salt Lake and didn't play. They threatened to sue us. The team was sold the next season [1934] to Detroit to G. A. Richards.  They then had our contracts. They sent us new contracts and gave us a ten dollar raise over what Portsmouth was going to give us and guaranteed us three games salaries. We felt pretty comfortable in going to Detroit the next year because they had guaranteed us they would give us three games pay. If we didn't make the team, we'd have enough money to get back. I'm talking about the Depression years. A few dollars was quite a factor then and having a job and something to do was important.

 

Mel:    Is this the same G. A. Richards that Potsy Clark didn't like?

 

Frank:    Yes. G. A. Richards owned the ball club. Potsy Clark was the coach of the Portsmouth Spartans. When they came to Detroit, he continued as the coach. G. A. Richards was a very arrogant individual. Potsy Clark was a real likeable guy. He was a tough football coach, but most of us got along with him. I didn't know of anyone that didn't really like Potsy Clark. G. A. Richards was an arrogant individual who wanted to dictate. Potsy Clark didn't [take to being] dictate[d] to very well. Potsy ultimately quit. To give you an idea of what a personality that G. A. Richards had, he had a lot of money. Radio stations. A big deal. He brought Bing Crosby out to introduce him to us. He started Bing Crosby. We went up to Traverse City in northern Michigan to play a practice game before the season in 1934. He was there with us. A big deal. The night before the game, we were having dinner at the hotel where we were staying. On the menu, you had a choice of fish or prime rib.. The waitress went to get the order from G. A. Richards and he said he wanted something like a T-bone steak. She said, "I'm sorry, sir. That's not on the menu."  He turned to her and said, "Look! Bring me what I ordered or I'll buy this God damned place and fire you!" That was his personality. Now you can understand why mos of us didn't like him. We detested the guy, but he had a lot of money and paid our checks. When he was dying, he called Dutch Clark to come out to see him. As Dutch told the story, he was lying in a hospital bed and he said, "You know, I'd give all my money to have just one friend." Dutch couldn't even say, "I'm your friend." Money is important, but not that important . . . . [We had two great quarterbacks on the Lions.] Glenn Presnell and Dutch Clark. It was kind of too bad. They were both great quarterbacks, but one or the other had to play. I guess Dutch was a little bit more of a leader . . . . Buddy Parker, he was from Centenary College down in Texas. He played one year for us, but unfortunately, G. A. Richards traded him to the Chicago Cardinals for Robert O. "Horse" Reynolds, a hell of a tackle. He only played one year for us. [It was a poor trade] because I thought Parker was much more important to the ball club. I don't say Reynolds wasn't a great player, but I don't think he justified giving up Buddy Parker . . . . Vern Huffman, a very interesting guy. . . . [In the locker room after we won the NFL title], we were a pretty happy group alright. I don't have any great recollection of it other than that everybody was happy. We didn't pour champagne over anybody's head.  Too expensive. I suppose there were some reporters there, but not a great deal. We were out at the University of Detroit stadium. The locker room was not very big. They had put in a lot of temporary bleachers and the stadium may have only held 20,000 people. [The weather conditions were] wet . . . . [Butch Morse, Ernie Caddel, Ox Emerson, and Glenn Presnell had had their wives take some films, but they had lost them. NFL Films had 1 1/2 minutes of the '35 championship game. It shows Dutch Clark scoring a touchdown, Glenn Presnell throwing a pass, Ed Klewicki catching a pass, and shows me (#2) intercepting a pass.]

 

Mel:    I always ask players who was the roughest, most bruising palyer they ever played against.

 

Frank:   I guess everybody would say Bronko Nagurski. There's no question. He was a tough ballplayer. When you tackled Bronko [he rose out of his chair to demonstrate], you'd be a lot better off if you were lying on the ground so you could catch ahold of one of his feet. He would come in so low and when you went to tackle him he would just wham you with that forearm! Oh, man! He was tough! A guy named Joe Stydahar, a tackle with the Bears. I don't know if anyone else would say he was a hard-hitting, mean so-and-so, but if you're assignment happened to be blocking on every run, you could certainly appreciate him. I'll tell you, oh man, he was, ummm.  Every time we had to run in that direction and my job was to get Joe Stydahar out of there, it wasn't easy. Boy, you had bruises. He was tough.

 

Mel:    How did you feel on a Monday morning?

 

Frank:    After the ballgame [away], you'd change your clothes, get on the train to go back [to Detroit]. With those bruises, that was a long, long ride. Mel Hein was a pretty tough guy, too.

 

Mel:   Who was the roughest player on the Lions?

 

Frank:    I think we were just a nice bunch of guys. I don't think anybody on the Detroit Lions was considered rough.

 

Mel:    How about Roy Lumpkin?

 

Frank:   I don't know.  I remember "Pop" Lumpkin. . . .  We were up playing Green Bay in 1934. Lumpkin comes back in the huddle and says, "Dutch, run three or four plays over to that side and I'll soften that old so-and-so [Cal Hubbard] up." "Fine." I can't recall the exact signal number and we get out of the huddle and away we go over to that side.  Smack!  After the huddle, we [go] over to that side again.  Smack! After the huddle.  Smack! Over to that side again. Lumpkin came back into the huddle and said, "Dutch, run one the other way, will you please."  That Cal Hubbard was a tough one. He was big and he was tough. Of course, there were a lot of them. As far as the Lions were concerned, George Christensen was pretty tough, in a way. But I don't think we were outstandingly tough. We just wanted to try to win.

 

Mel:    Did you have any guys you'd consider colorful characters?

 

Frank:    Well, Lumpkin. He was one of those guys like Bill Hewitt of the Bears who didn't wear a helmet. At that time, if you didn't want to wear one, you didn't have to. He didn't like the way the things fit over his ears. So he wouldn't wear a helmet. Lumpkin, rather than wear socks, would wrap his feet in tape. The tape would get pretty bad after a few days. He keep it on a few days so he didn't have to wear socks. Just tape his feet. Why buy socks if you can put tape on them? . . . . I played against Johnny Blood, but I didn't know him very well. I'm pretty sure Johnny Blood was in that game we played against Green Bay before we went to Hawaii [after we won the title in 1935]. I think that was about his last year. He was quite a guy, but I didn't know him personally. Clarke Hinkle was in the Bronko era. He was pretty damn tough. He was on most of the All-Pro teams. Don Hutson. I used to have to defense against him. He would come through the line and just blow past me so fast that it almost gave me pneumonia from the breeze. . . . . In 1935, I had six 60-minute games. I probably missed 20 or 30 minutes total in the season. [Before we began recording Frank said that he was sitting on the sidelines in the first game of the season against the New York Giants. The backfield consisted of Dutch Clark, Ernie Caddel, Ace Gutowsky, and Pop Lumpkin. Four good backs. Caddel and Clark were the kickers, but neither one was really very good. The Lions were on their own 20 yard line and needed to boot the ball back into their opponent's territory. Potsy Clark knew that neither Clark nor Caddel were capable of it, so he asked Frank if he could boom a kick. Christensen said sure. He kicked the best kick of his career clear over Harry Newman, the safety's head. So he stayed in from then on.]  In 1935, they brought a guy in who was an understudy for me. I was playing for $135 a game. I learned that his contract was $275. In the first three or four games, I think he played about three or four minutes. When I found out about this, I went to Dutch Clark, the captain of the team, and said, "Man, that makes me mad. I have to sign a contract with no raise in pay." And I find out that I'm the only one on the team with no raise in pay. "Now I've got an understudy who's earning double what my pay is."  He said, "Look Chris, just take it easy."  [Tape ends. But he continued on, mentioning that they ended up making a ruling that anybody playing almost the entire game would get an extra $100.]